ToS;DR on Element and Discord.
Feel free to join us on Element!
We also have a Matrix Community!
Community: You're invited to talk on Matrix
Welcome Room: You're invited to talk on Matrix (here you’ll find all the other rooms for the Community.)
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I’d join if one was created.
where is the line drawn here?
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I’d say we shouldn’t allow stuff like ‘Site Feedback, Service Requests, Case Discussion…’
The types of communications that are here for anyone to check our working process. Instead, more for stuff like informal communication, expressing our opinions about different Services, maybe coding discussions…
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I’d want one as well, easy for off topic stuff or realtime communication. Could create one if @Peepo or @michielbdejong agree with this idea.
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@Peepo @Arlo @michielbdejong If you agree, I already have a template server done for it. Still managing roles and structure, but should work properly by now. 
Link: Discord
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I love Discord but I’m a little hesitant to have a server, just because idk what exactly it would be used for. We can try it out though and see if we like it!
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I haven’t started contributing, so pay whatever amount of attention to me you feel like.
Discord is proprietary, which keeps some people (like me) away. I guess many users (and potential contributors) of tos;dr, use it to avoid the most non-free sites, I think the signal would be bad.
A first step would be to assign a class to them, as it is, it just has a number of bullet points listed (that mostly would contribute to a bad score).
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@grove I get where you’re coming from, and agree with your POV. I’d argue that it shouldn’t be necessarily a deterrent as it’s a useful tool, and we as users could take measures to lessen the bad features, or limit our uses of said service.
Ofc, it’s mainly an experimental thing atm (kind of an “entertain the idea” thing), and users should never feel compelled to use it as it’s not an enforcement upon anyone.
In the end, it’s a matter of choice, and how a user should approach it.
I personally outweigh the good with the bad in a ‘usefulness’ stand, and also believe that we ought to create a more conscious culture in the long run that will allow us to have a greater say on how ToS are enforced to the user.
What do you think?
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I think that anything besides rejection of proprietary protocols cause them to grow.
And nothing I’ve read about discord makes me want to investigate it further.
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Hi!
To “eat our own dog food”, Discord does not seem to have stellar terms of service. Quite the contrary, actually.
I would suggest we use element.io. Not only it is fully Free-and-Open-Source-Software, its is also fully distributed using the Matrix open protocol. Every matrix client has their own server, but I’ve read the terms of service of the one at element.io, the server operated by New Vector, Ltd., and it does seem quite reasonable.
Element has a lot of the same features as Discord: you can have multiple channels on a workspace, you can make audio and video calls. It also does have some nice features that Discord doesn’t, such as end-to-end cryptography.
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Wow! Thanks for the suggestion. Will look into its features and practices right away!
P.S.: It’s End-to-End Encryption(?) xD
Update (07:10 UTC-05:00): @KnossosDomovoi So it’s been created (free version 'cause there’s no funding for that atm, but not a problem really), but obviously still not finished.
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totally agreed with the sentiment against discord.
here are the rest of my 2 cents…
i’m not too happy with matrix or element either.
no idea about terms, i just think their whole things are way too buggy.
i prefer either telegram or, hear me out: delta chat. now that’s some amazing piece of architecture there! just not sure how to set up an open group or something… they’re still starting.
none of those have competing audio features with discord or element. but, at very least, just wanted to point out, perhaps such features aren’t needed.
in any case, it’s great you didn’t go with discord!
(ps: then again, discourse isn’t stellar either… i’m only here because i don’t have to install it and it’s at least rather easy to delete once they turn completely evil or useless in the near future. nodebb is a much better direct alternative, but i’m still to see a good reason to host a forum rather than using mastodon, lbry, or something).
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If you’re looking for another free and open source alternative, Rocket Chat is also pretty good. I use it everyday.
But so far I am also satisfied with element. I haven’t found any bugs so far, and as I said I’ve read the New Vector, Ltd., terms of service and they don’t have the usual bad stuff.
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i also tried rocket. it’s only free for self hosting, like discourse.
unlike lbry, for instance. 100% FOSS.
oof, this will look like offtopic. perhaps a bit confusing…
one problem with that hosting model is that the architecture tends to get lazy and compensated by the servers and other resources to be fast enough… precisely because…
the biggest advantage is that they also tend to generate so much income, perhaps thanks to all the free marketing (free of you host, open source, etc) that things can be developed fast… but we’re in times to slow down, so even that’s out of place!
i honestly only care for good tos as much as a signal for intelligence… but to me the goal when looking for software is FOSS. which will always tend to compensate for lack of market money injection with smartness. plus it almost always includes good data backups along the way.
makes any sense?
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Reviewing them ASAP
Will update on this topic when sufficiently reviewed.
While it is annoying, bear in mind they are still developing it… It’s kind of a Beta project. Besides, at least it’s Open Source and one could generate custom widgets/APIs eventually, if motivated enough (I’m focusing my learning progress on programming for that).
Thanks for the advice! You peaked my interest.
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What are the advantages of Delta Chat compared to other messengers?
they’re actually terrible at marketing.
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Update
@trust_level_0 @trust_level_1 @trust_level_2 @trust_level_3 @trust_level_4
We are now linking to our Matrix Community. I’m editing the topic to suit that redirection.
That being said, we are still open to discussions for another alternative, but for now indeed it has been concluded that Element is a better option than Discord.
Link: You're invited to talk on Matrix
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i can sure agree with that, and even use element to join you at least and at last! 
but their security is also not really well done, ux wise. i haven’t used it in a while, and i sure have a backup of my key somewhere, but couldn’t find it. several reasons why.
the ideal way to do such things is done by mostly unrelated https://mangrove.reviews + wished everyone would follow this lead!
second best is like delta chat, using emails and backup files with good names.
weird enough, i just closed it, opened again, then it forgot to ask me for the file and must have allowed me in without encryption… hopefully.
still, unusable for now as you might’ve read there.
i’ll try again another time.
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